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Looking for Science in craftwork.

Malcolm

Active member
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
I am of the opinion that all magic, all religion, all abilities of the mind and magic, can now be explained by science. Because of this none of us are limited to what can or can't be done in magic. All faith is real, once you have a faith in anything you have made it real. It is hard for me to explain this out of hand, but I am getting to the point that I can, I just need to know if anyone else out in the magic world thinks along these lines.
 

LiathGallese

Active member
Joined
Jul 6, 2021
Location
Tuscany, Italy
You might be interested in the book, Power of the Witch by Laurie Cabot. She refers to magic as science we have yet to discover. I fall into that category of thinker as well, that intention is energy, and the ability to focus energy to achieve a goal results in change. If you think of radio waves, UV light, all of those are "unseen energies" which our ancestors would definitely have called magic. So for me, my ability to create change is logical, possible and real. And while I believe in the science of it, I havent lost the wonder of it, it still fills me with joy. I guess I am the Leonard Hofsteader of spell crafting. 😜
 

Malcolm

Active member
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
You might be interested in the book, Power of the Witch by Laurie Cabot. She refers to magic as science we have yet to discover. I fall into that category of thinker as well, that intention is energy, and the ability to focus energy to achieve a goal results in change. If you think of radio waves, UV light, all of those are "unseen energies" which our ancestors would definitely have called magic. So for me, my ability to create change is logical, possible and real. And while I believe in the science of it, I havent lost the wonder of it, it still fills me with joy. I guess I am the Leonard Hofsteader of spell crafting. 😜
My point is, that we have discovered it. Ever since they made an experiment that could not make it's mind up about light being a wave or a particle, proving that it has to be seen or observed, it means that you see what ever the light wants you to see, it makes it's mind up what it is.
 

Malcolm

Active member
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
There is a ton of psychology in magic too
I know that, but the other truth to magic is that we are almost at the point that we can document it, it will shut up a lot of science geeks, prove a few theories and disprove a few others.
 

Glinda

Moderator
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
I am iffy about faith = making real. I could have faith that the sky is purple, but it isn't so. Faith is one of those iffy territories because by definition it cannot be proven.

Having said that, I do believe people can create thought-forms without even knowing it. I had a housemate whose depression and drug use lead to this clingy icky thing around him all the time. A group talking about an entity a lot, giving it power (like Satan) can make for a pretty impressive thought form. Not sure if I'm saying this right.
 

Malcolm

Active member
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
I am iffy about faith = making real. I could have faith that the sky is purple, but it isn't so. Faith is one of those iffy territories because by definition it cannot be proven.

Having said that, I do believe people can create thought-forms without even knowing it. I had a housemate whose depression and drug use lead to this clingy icky thing around him all the time. A group talking about an entity a lot, giving it power (like Satan) can make for a pretty impressive thought form. Not sure if I'm saying this right.
The thing is, it is all science and faith at the same time. The thing with light is just the start, it goes on from that with a cat that you have to observe to see if it is alive in a box. It is both dead and alive at the same time, until you open the box and find out its condition. it's all part of quantum theory, this means that many billions of worlds stars, and universes all exist at the same time, and some are yet to be created by us. Is not the other world, or the astral plain, just a universe, it's just set apart. So if we enter one or both of them, we have changed something there, and so something must have changed in this universe. The more we make choices to work in one or other place, or with beings from those places, the more we affect our own. So on a fundimental level what we believe to be true, is true. Any god, demon, spirit, act of magic are real and not real at the same time until we make them one or the other by bringing them into our realm by an act of will.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
Location
Greater New York Metropolitan Area
I am iffy about faith = making real. I could have faith that the sky is purple, but it isn't so. Faith is one of those iffy territories because by definition it cannot be proven.

Having said that, I do believe people can create thought-forms without even knowing it. I had a housemate whose depression and drug use lead to this clingy icky thing around him all the time. A group talking about an entity a lot, giving it power (like Satan) can make for a pretty impressive thought form. Not sure if I'm saying this right.
Faith is so entrenched in the invasive orthodoxies that I don't use it and, also, it can't be proven. In other words, xtians have "faith" because they can't prove there's a god -- a monolithic, all-knowing something or other.

Just now, looking up synonyms for faith, all resources list invasive religion first and many refer to the bible for quotations using it.

Some of the synonyms lower down the pages are:

credence,
confidence,
acceptance,
assurance,
assuredness,
certainty,
certitude,
conviction,
sureness,
surety,
credit,
reliance.

@Malcolm and @Glinda, perhaps we can think of a better word. What are your thoughts?
 
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H LM Malone

New member
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
I don't know if everything can be explained by science...yet, but you are certainly not alone in feeling this way. I am a firm believer that science & religion are two sides of the same coin and go hand in hand - You cannot have one without the other. Otherwise, you are just getting half the answer/truth.
 

Malcolm

Active member
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
Faith is so entrenched in the invasive orthodoxies that I don't use it and, also, it can't be proven. In other words, xtians have "faith" because they can't prove there's a god -- a monolithic, all-knowing something or other.

Just now, looking up synonyms for faith, all resources list invasive religion first and many refer to the bible for quotations using it.

Some of the synonyms lower down the pages are:

credence,
confidence,
acceptance,
assurance,
assuredness,
certainty,
certitude,
conviction,
sureness,
surety,
credit,
reliance.

@Malcolm and @Glinda, perhaps we can think of a better word. What are your thoughts?
A better word would be losing a word, but thinking of faith, just stop using it. If you make something happen by an act of will, that is fact, no faith needed. having a faith is no more than a way of focusing your mind, if you love Santa he is real as a thought form. The more people that love Santa the more real he will be. If you make something happen by an act of will you have become a creator, no faith needed at all.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
Location
Greater New York Metropolitan Area
I don't know if everything can be explained by science...yet, but you are certainly not alone in feeling this way. I am a firm believer that science & religion are two sides of the same coin and go hand in hand - You cannot have one without the other. Otherwise, you are just getting half the answer/truth.
How would science and religion be 2 sides of the same coin? Just curious because I don't understand. I could see science and magick being 2 sides of the same coin. Perhaps it's because I have no "faith" in religion for the invasiveness of orthodoxies of it in converting by the sword or noose or fire, proselytizing, canonizing of it, hierarchy, corruption, and so forth. Please help me out here. Thank you kindly!
 

Glinda

Moderator
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
yesterday's magic is today's science (so to speak). As our understanding of the microcosm and macrocosm expands, "mysteries" unfold into understanding and on-going awareness. It's a never-ending cycle. Who would have thought alchemy would become chemistry or astrology turn into astronomy, for example?
 

H LM Malone

New member
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
How would science and religion be 2 sides of the same coin? Just curious because I don't understand. I could see science and magick being 2 sides of the same coin. Perhaps it's because I have no "faith" in religion for the invasiveness of orthodoxies of it in converting by the sword or noose or fire, proselytizing, canonizing of it, hierarchy, corruption, and so forth. Please help me out here. Thank you kindly!
In my opinion, they are both seeking the same outcome : truth, knowledge, understanding, finding our place in the universe - One simply takes a physical approach, and one takes a metaphysical approach - but the goal is inherently the same. That's not to say that humanity hasn't used either, or both, to justify horrible atrocities - but those are acts of man and subjective interpretation & ego, not the basis of either field. Just like the idea of balancing mind, body & spirit - the body is physical, the spirit is metaphysical, and the mind connects them together - science is physical, religion/faith/spirituality, whatever you'd like to deem it in your own life, is metaphysical and the human experience connects them together.
 

Malcolm

Active member
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
How would science and religion be 2 sides of the same coin? Just curious because I don't understand. I could see science and magick being 2 sides of the same coin. Perhaps it's because I have no "faith" in religion for the invasiveness of orthodoxies of it in converting by the sword or noose or fire, proselytizing, canonizing of it, hierarchy, corruption, and so forth. Please help me out here. Thank you kindly!
Everything is able to be corrupted in one way or another. That is not the point I was trying to make. I feel that science is almost at the point that it will be able to quantify magic as a fact.
 

Malcolm

Active member
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
In my opinion, they are both seeking the same outcome : truth, knowledge, understanding, finding our place in the universe - One simply takes a physical approach, and one takes a metaphysical approach - but the goal is inherently the same. That's not to say that humanity hasn't used either, or both, to justify horrible atrocities - but those are acts of man and subjective interpretation & ego, not the basis of either field. Just like the idea of balancing mind, body & spirit - the body is physical, the spirit is metaphysical, and the mind connects them together - science is physical, religion/faith/spirituality, whatever you'd like to deem it in your own life, is metaphysical and the human experience connects them together.
Science has moved on, it has got to the point that it is in many places in full agreement with the magical worlds in many places. In the way light is both a wave and particle at the same time. It also seems to decide which one it is by itself. It is also explaining that the other world, dream times, the astral plane and every other plane of reality could be real, is real, and not real at the same time. It means that we as magic users are creating, as magic is as real as the material world.
 
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