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Are the Tarot cards and the Nordic, Germanic and old English runes almost the same thing. Do you think they came from the same system or not ?

Malcolm

Active member
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
My thinking is that that, the people that created them come from the same area, and had almost the same religions. one was used much the same as the other, this points to an early alphabet and concept of teaching.
 

Glinda

Moderator
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
The earliest documented runes were from 150 AD, with the Elder Futhark. This is an excellent piece about them: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/viking-runes-through-time/

The oldest surviving tarot cards are from the Visconti-Sforza, 15th Century Northern Italy, with their predecessors being 12th and 13th-century playing cards.

At the moment I can't find any scholarly pieces about connections between the two. The language of symbols in each is quite unique. I am sure there are some modern decks that feature runes, but I can be certain how much runes may (or may not) have influenced the tarot.

Did I just make things more complicated?

 
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
Location
Greater New York Metropolitan Area
Yes, runes were originally used to teach language as symbols of words and sounds. Germanic Norse runes were their alphabet and not used for divination. This is why we have runic writing on stones. They used bones and sticks for divination and, eventually, those had runs scratched into them. In the last decade or so archeological findings show they may have originated in the northern part of the Roman Empire and then, due to proximity, were transferred to the Germanic Norse. This would have been helpful for trade.

Runes, in general, came from Phoenicia to Etruscans to Roman Empire, to Denmark. The Germanic Norse, however, are responsible for the runes spreading from everywhere they traded, shipped, landed, and lived -- from Russia to Greenland, to Africa and the Middle East.

As for tarot, Glinda's explanation is the only historical one that I'm familiar with.

Another site with runic history, written this year is found on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBnkwdWUO7M26DDFQVlHJuQ
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
Location
Greater New York Metropolitan Area
The earliest documented runes were from 150 AD, with the Elder Futhark. This is an excellent piece about them: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/viking-runes-through-time/

The oldest surviving tarot cards are from the Visconti-Sforza, 15th Century Northern Italy, with their predecessors being 12th and 13th-century playing cards.

At the moment I can't find any scholarly pieces about connections between the two. The language of symbols in each is quite unique. I am sure there are some modern decks that feature runes, but I can be certain how much runes may (or may not) have influenced the tarot.

Did I just make things more complicated?

Thank you for the Nova excellent reference. I'll have to watch it tonight! Blessings.
 

Malcolm

Active member
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
I think Runes went the other way, from the EU area, to all the other places via the trade. the dates for the runes are a bit out as Runes are inscribed on stones in Sweden that pre date AD150 by 600 years or so. the Tarot from Italy like almost all the others has a Pope, and Is a Christian based one. but it has links that go back to a pre-Christion era, or even earlier.
 

celticmystyrose

New member
Joined
Jul 6, 2021
Location
Gibraltar
Tarots origins are not an alphabet as the Runes and Ogham are. The Tarot called then Tarrochi was a set of miniature portraits made to order around the 1440 by the Duke of Milan, Fillipo Visconti he had them created by Michelino da Besozzo and had the characters in his court portrayed they were then used to play the parlour games of the time. However that is not to say that these are the first Tarot cards but the actual Tarrochi from which the name Tarot comes from. There may be other countries that had some form of playing cards but the first recognised ones where the Tarrochi. Copies of the Visconti Sorfoza deck are still being sold today. all the Runes and the Ogham are alphabets which people then started to use as divination tools they were a means first and foremost of communication.
 

Malcolm

Active member
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
Tarots origins are not an alphabet as the Runes and Ogham are. The Tarot called then Tarrochi was a set of miniature portraits made to order around the 1440 by the Duke of Milan, Fillipo Visconti he had them created by Michelino da Besozzo and had the characters in his court portrayed they were then used to play the parlour games of the time. However that is not to say that these are the first Tarot cards but the actual Tarrochi from which the name Tarot comes from. There may be other countries that had some form of playing cards but the first recognised ones where the Tarrochi. Copies of the Visconti Sorfoza deck are still being sold today. all the Runes and the Ogham are alphabets which people then started to use as divination tools they were a means first and foremost of communication.
Very true, but that was due to the printing press becoming popular. Before the 1400's they were drawn, partial sets have been found in North Africa with other meanings for the pope card being a gate keeper to the other world, making it very pre-christian in it's inception. A few have been found in India and China with other types of pictography that could mean it is also linked to I-ching, or even the Buda. A partial set has been found in an area that is still under debate as being the birth place of the indo-europians who became the Vikings in the end. The problem with written records is they only go back as far as writing, and that is a modern thing.
 
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